New York Times calls Sarah Palin: “The Woman Who Might Be President”
She shows up in black leather with a Harley helmet on her head, and, yes, her talking points written on the palm of her hand, and mainstream media—-as exemplified by this story in The New York Times, (featured at the top of their home page, which is equivalent to above the fold on page one, back when anybody actually read the print edition)—-rolls over giddily and begs her to scratch their collective belly.
For sheer mastery of celebrity theater, Sarah Palin cannot be beat.
Ms. Palin, the former governor of Alaska, let the anticipation build for hours on Sunday in the Pentagon’s North Parking Lot, where thousands of bikers (and their rumbling Harleys) had gathered for the annual Rolling Thunder rally ahead of Memorial Day.
And then, suddenly, there she was: Ms. Palin, with her husband, Todd, and the rest of the family. Wearing matching black Harley-Davidson helmets, they rode motorcycles toward the front of the procession through a crush of cameramen, photographers, reporters and leather-clad bikers, all jostling for just a peek at the woman who might be president.
It’s long past time for those of us who believe that Sarah continues to represent a real threat to the (largely) rational discourse that has been a hallmark of our democracy for 235 years to keep blaming her and recognize that it’s the enabling by mainstream media, desperate for page views as print circulation plummets, that keeps her not only afloat, but aloft.
MSM argue that they have to cover her because everything she says and does is “news.”
But it’s only news because they make it news.
Granted, as a candidate for vice president in 2008, Sarah was news. But since November, 2008–and even more so after she quit as Alaska governor in 2009–it’s been MSM’s presenting her as a serious person, even while deriding her in the snobbish fashion that allows her to call them “lamestream”–that has kept the helium in Sarah’s balloon.
What’s clear from the weekend is that nobody has learned a thing.
She starts a “bus tour”—one for which her organizers refuse to say where she’ll be tomorrow— on the back of a motorcycle, and she’s hailed for her “mastery of celebrity theater,” and praised for outFoxing (pun intended) the MSM journalists who chase after her, tongues hanging out.
Okay, but cover her in the entertainment section. Even as the solemn debate about whether she’ll actually be a candidate next year continues, The New York Times calls her, without apparent irony, “the woman who might be president.”
And Chris Matthews, who stated the obvious last week by saying, “she’s profoundly stupid,” said more recently:
“She is really good . . . she’s fantastic on a stage. When she walks out on that stage there’s something kinetic happening. She looks great, look at her, she’s alive, she’s smiling, she’s doing stuff, she’s moving around. You can’t take your eyes off of what she’s doing.”
God help us, his leg is tingling again.
And both John McCain and Andrew Sullivan said yesterday that given the right set of circumstances she could beat President Obama next year.
Hey, if exchanging nasty comments about Sarah on this or any other blog makes you feel good, by all means keep on doing it.
But don’t kid yourself that it’s having any effect in the real world, where media memes are created, where elections are decided, and where the moral, ethical and political contours of our country are being shaped.
Seeing the gleeful embrace that MSM is giving Sarah as she returns from self-imposed, post-Tucson exile, I don’t quite despair, but I worry.
And in my head, I replay Bob Dylan’s lyrics from “It’s All Over Now, Baby Blue,” which he wrote and first performed in 1965, in the wake of the John F. Kennedy assassination:
You must leave now, take what you need, you think will last
But whatever you wish to keep, you better grab it fast
Yonder stands your orphan with his gun
Crying like a fire in the sun
Look out the saints are comin’ through
And it’s all over now, Baby Blue…The empty-handed painter from your streets
Is drawing crazy patterns on your sheets
This sky, too, is folding under you
And it’s all over now, Baby Blue
Sarah hops on a Harley at the Pentagon and MSM falls back in love with her again.
Happy Memorial Day.
Since nobody else is tooting my motorcycle horn, I shall toot it myself. Not only have I been saying these exact same things longer than anyone else, but one of the subjects detailed in my book, PARADIGM SHIFT: The Palin Matrix, is the story of Harley-Davidson and how they became the corporate image darling of the right wing, beginning when the company re-purchased itself back from AMF in 1981. Sarah knows how to steal the heart out of a nation, and it will take an innovative approach to take it back from her. I look forward to reading your book, Joe. Of course I have it on order. I hope you have read mine.
Joe, seriously, what can be done in regards to the media so that this nightmare will stop? Is there anything we, as tax-paying, registered voter, consumers can do so the MSM will get the message? Any campaign we can start like “Don’t Click It” re: any story that has to do with Palin? I want to do something….this HAS to stop!
What can we do, Joe, except bitch about her to each other? We know we have zero power.
Your good buddy Roger Ailes essentially calls the shots for the entire U.S. media, his hate-spouting minions on Fox news fan the flames of prejudice and hate, and is doing everything he can to take us back to the McCarthy era while using Sexy Sarah as a prime distraction.
When I read that you avoid discussing these issues with him, I was very disheartened. If people like you who are in a position to do so, are too polite to speak truth to power, the rest of us are so fucking screwed.
Come to think of it – did you ever explain why you went public with Frank Bailey’s manuscript? Were you giving Roger Ailes a head’s up to pass along to his favorite cash cow?
I smell the emissions from Los Angeles.
Rule 101 of the MSM playbook: if there is no story to report then you create one. The NYT put that out there today because they are attempting to goad Palin into running.
Everyone from the New York Times to TMZ wants Sarah Palin to run for two reasons.
1) the current list of candidates are so boring, they can never generate any press. The press went through this in 1996 when Robert Dole won the GOP nomination. Dole was too old and not sexy enough to generate any interest. Palin interest is 24/7 good or bad.
2) Sarah Palin is a reporter’s dream come true. Katie Couric and Charlie Gibson discovered that interviewing Palin was like talking to your dog. Any answer given would be viewed as asinine. Everyone from Rachel Maddow to Bill O’Reilly would love to quiz her as what she would do as president. It’s comedy that would generate ratings and sales of magazines and newspapers.
The media needs Palin and she knows it. She know America will never accept her.(C’mon we always had a clown. His name is George W. Bush) She knows that in the battle of the minds, she could never challenge Obama. She knows that the skeletons she has hidden need to remain hidden. Palin knows running for President would be a free-for-all on her character and she will be skinned alive. That is why I believe Palin will play a cat and mouse but she will come out and say she is not running.
Tell us what to do Joe. I’ve been saying for 3 years that this woman is a demagogue and a particularly cheap character who’s faking her way through and knows how to play both money men and the press. I write everywhere I can. I donate as I’m able. I come here because it’s such a relief to be blunt without “pending” or scrubbed for simply stating the truth. I have tried. I’ve talked and written and tried to back it up with facts and photos and….anything I can think of.
Tell us what to do. Do you have any ideas? Because the sickened and disgusted part I’ve got down pat. I know venting it is pointless. I get it. Is there something useful to do that I haven’t thought of? Please share. Because I don’t have the money or the clout to compete with the NYT times or any other outlet. I can’t control the talking heads other than to – once again – talk and write about them and to them.
Tell me what to do to fight this scourge. Something legal, strategic, and effective. She just took over a veteran’s event while shaking her ass in black leather like some female pro from a fetish club. And the press translates that into “political qualifications”.
What do we do? How do you fight the press that enables her? Something. Anything. What?
I say the way to fight back is turn off the teevee….I don’t watch msm and feel much better without it, I get everything on the internet….possibly we can strike against msm…do not watch it…,
At least one day a week, do not turn on your teevee….if people think this is a doable, maybe we can pick a day, maybe Mondays and do not turn on your teevee(unless there’s a crisis). I too have written, but as Joe and others here and all the blogs agree, msm needs to sell, make $$$$$, and Serror’s antics generate buzz….but we have to take action soon…..
Any takers?????Any other ideas??????
The MSM also tried to say that she “held her own” in her debate with Biden. They also tried to say that McCain won a couple of his debates with Obama. The public polls showed otherwise in all cases. The American public does not look to the MSM for its cues. They are loud and obnoxious, yes, but in the end they don’t elect the President or even the nominee.
Here is what I think we should do. Aside from the massive problem we have with the mainstream media, the issue lies with two groups, the ones I call CINOs (Christians In Name Only) and the ones I call the Lou Dobbs Independents (officially registered Independents who vote with Fox News 90% of the time). These two groups, who both vote in very high percentages among their respective demographics, need to be separated and disenfranchised from the real Christians and Independents. The LDIs are consistently affected by economic issues (Tax and Spend) and the CINOs are affected by the abortion issue above all else. The real Christians have enough common sense to see that Sarah is anything but a Christian; however, the CINOs are just in the game for the control of the power and money in the first place. These are the sort of big picture issues that I covered in my book. Without the economic devastation that has demoralized the citizens over the past forty years, a demagogue like Palin could never have risen to power in the first place. We have to begin looking at this situation in an all-new way. The tried and true methodology will not work against this corporate-backed, media-supported monster. The whole thing is the result of a paradigm shift and we have to deal with it as such.
Surely it is the shadowy people who control the media that keep the Palin meme alive?
I tend to agree with you barracuda but, stronger! sarah has her “flying monkeys” and they flood anyone’s email and/or comment section of any cable, news outlet or local new stations when they are running defense for her.
Joe has first hand knowledge of this, didn’t they jam up your email when word got out you rented the house next to hers? People on this blog and others often comment about the fear everyone has to take a stand against her because of the backlash from her followers………….so……….why can’t everyone on all the anti sarah blogs do the same thing? I know many of you comment on palingates, politicalgates, im and other blogs……..can’t you start a run on the NYT and on Hardball? If I send a comment letting them know I am not tuning into any of their broadcasts that talk about her it is one comment in a sea of comments……….but, if they get thousands of comments……….maybe we can be heard. Like Faye Dunaway in Network when she yelled “I’m mad as hell and I won’t take it anymore”. Can someone spread the word and organize this? The most important part of this whole equation is to let them know our intent and then actually follow through with it. We cannot watch a broadcast that runs a story about her. We cannot read the news in a paper or online site that runs a story with her in it. We have to SHOW them that she doesn’t sell the news. Can you all please reply and tell me your thoughts on this because I have a big ole posse of my own that is willing to do anything to make her go away and I can definitely get them on board with this plan.
as always,
peace
p.s. I also believe that sarah gets off on reading this blog and all the other anti blogs as well. Like a child, it doesn’t matter if it is negative or positive-as long as she gets attention. It has been alluded to in other blogs that is sometimes transparent she reads the blogs………why would she? Because it helps her with her strategy and it is ATTENTION. She loves having as many haters as worshipers-it is all part of “being a celebrity” to her.
That said, I for one am rethinking reading the blogs, possibly with the exception of this one.
Yes, the MSM is keeping Palin alive but only because she was the other option. The MSM was ready to go all in with Donald Trump. The MSM knows Palin is a trainwreck, but Donald Trump is no Sarah Palin. With Trump, they had a proven media whore they could run with. Palin would have been put out with the garbage because they had Trump. When Trump ran with the birther story, the MSM were sheep following the shepherd. They ran with the birther story because they want Trump on the campaign. Trump knew the MSM wanted him to run because for the first time, Trump would have to be open on a number of things including how much is he really worth. The media was ready to feast on an long awaited meal: Trump. An egomaniac like Trump couldn’t have that so that is why he was never going to run but the media didn’t know that. That forced the MSM to go to plan B: Palin hence stories about how Palin could be president. Surprise…..
We got rid of our television, and it improved our lives greatly. We also do not subscribe to any mainstream media or any media of any kind (unless you call AARP’s magazine mainstream media).
However, there is another existing problem that becomes slightly exacerbated when we withdraw from the media: the mainstream media are going broke due to the internet and other lifestyle changes, and our withdrawal merely adds to this load. If they don’t pump this woman for all she’s worth to increase ratings and revenues, they may ‘see the handwriting on the wall’, economically speaking. I think they are suffering partly because her demographic group has tuned them out, having been taught for so many years that they are evil. Bottom line: the media is now financially desperate, and willing to do anything to be relevant.
In addition, the literacy level of most Americans has dropped considerably (despite the increase in college admissions, many of which are remedial). Most Americans now lack even the moderate attention span required to read anything that is not titillating.
All the rules have changed. She is cunning enough to use this to her advantage (as is the tea party, unfortunately). We need to learn how to work in the new paradigm as well. Currently, she i(and they) is/are the beneficiary/beneficiaries of this type of asymmetrical ‘warfare’. We need to learn how to act in an effective way as well.
Sorry for the multiple posts but I am really in a pro active mode here!! In addition to the above suggestions made – go on all the news sites and click on any link to read that does not have sarah’s name in it.
They know how many readers they get for every post………..click on anything and everything else. Joe along with all the anti sp blogs post whatever she is doing so you can read it there.
?????
I, for one, am not going to give up hope that she will not succeed in anything other than taking money from stupid people. And that leaves them with that much less for a real candidate when one comes forward. Look at how much we have learned in the past two years.!! Maybe we haven’t eliminated her, but she is not able to fool us. I first heard about Palin through NPR, that lead me to Anne K.’s letter, then on to mudflats, and the list has just grown and grown. The two blogs that closed were replaced with several more!! With Brad’s paper and Joe’s book, along with Geoffry’s book, and Frank’s book a difference will be, is being, made. It may not be as fast as we would like, but progress is often slow in coming. The one thing we cannot do is feel defeated. We need to know that truth will win out. It will be very difficult for people to believe all the lies she tells again and again, but they will begin to understand that she is just a huckster out for herself. Never, never give up the hope that people are not as stupid as they sometimes seem.
Blue:
Nobody who is alive has zero power. You can express your feelings to MSM outlets. If they’re so frightened that they let the Tea Party scare them, why not a No2T party?
Roger Ailes is a longstanding and close friend of mine, but he does not “essentially [call] the shots for the entire U.S. media.” And I’ve never been “too polite” to tell him what I think. But nothing I say can change his mind, just as nothing he says can change mine about political issues. It’s not about speaking truth to power, it’s about reconnecting as old friends, who happen to be at opposite ends of the political spectrum. The late William F. Buckley was also a friend of mine, although I don’t think we ever agreed about a single aspect of politics or policy.
If you feel you’re “fucking screwed,” don’t blame me. I’ve never worked for MSM, and in any book I’ve written–and this will be the case with THE ROGUE, as you’ll see in September–I’ve told the truth.
In regard to the Bailey manuscript, I didn’t “go public” with it, although as my agent says, “Bailey owes you a bouquet of flowers and a bottle of champagne,” because if the emails he used as the basis of his book hadn’t been published in February he’d never have had a book in the amazon top 100 in May.
I didn’t write or post a word about Bailey’s book. Yes, as soon as I saw the manuscript, I of course sent it to a few friends and media outlets in Alaska, because Bailey said things about certain people whom I was still in the process of interviewing, and I thought (correctly, as it happened) that they might talk more candidly to me once they knew what Bailey & Co. had written about them.
If others published excerpts from the manuscript, they must have felt they were entitled to, because Bailey’s agent sent it out as an email attachment to a pitch letter to dozens of publishers, neither requesting or requiring confidentiality. In fact, the agent sent it to my own editor!
By contrast, for the many magazines, newspapers and/or online outlets that have expressed interest in printing or posting a pre-publication excerpt from THE ROGUE, my publisher has a) required signed non-disclosure agreements, and b) said a representative of the interested media outlet can read the manuscript in my publisher’s office for no more than two hours, and c) even that manuscript will be redacted (i.e. certain portions will be blacked out.)
–Joe
I think we must guard against putting all our efforts into trying to bring her down at the cost of working hard to make sure the President is returned to office and we get as many Dems as possible elected.
The woman is like a virus. She doesn’t have the ability to sustain her celebrity life on her own. In order to survive, she lodges in *host cells*. It doesn’t matter if the people who act as her host cells love her or hate her. They/we all keep her alive. And this woman can bring out the worst in all of us.
I wouldn’t be so foolish as to take my eye off her completely, but I will focus on helping elect people with the best interests of all at heart. Health for the country; destruction of the virus.
I wish I could tell you, but I’m only an author, not a political activist.
I’ve written 320 pages of truth about her (last chapter due at the end of this week).
That’s what I’ve done. And it’s all I can do for now.
–Joe
In response to ‘freesia’…I am so with you. I am actually depressed when I read bits such as “John McCain and Andrew Sullivan say Sarah Palin could beat President Obama in 2012.” ?!?!?!?!?!? WTH (I’d really like to say WTF, but I was trying not to be crude.) I was afraid to click on one of the links about Palin at the motorcycle rally because I was worried about how she would be portrayed. I am absolutely dumbfounded that she is still here. She has got to be one of the most calculating and conniving people alive.
And was Piper driving that motorcycle while her mother sat behind her just waving and waving at the cameras??? SICK.
So now today, basically, the New York Times, John McCain and Andrew Sullivan have all said she could be the next president. And the last poll I saw had her about 2 percentage points behind Mitt Romney. I feel like I’m in an episode of the Twilight Zone. Only this episode just keeps going and going and going…it’s never time for a commercial break.
Anyway…I just wanted to say that everything that “freesia” wrote is exactly how I’ve been feeling.
I had a long conversation with a friend who is a psychiatrist regarding $arah recently. Informally, and without direct contact, he said he could not diagnose her – but based on what he has read about her in the media, and book reviews about her half term in office – he said tht she exhibits the behavior of a Borderline Personality Disorder patient he once treated.
The problem for the medical community is the BPD is not treatable with medication. SSRI’s do not work, and neither do mood elevators. The only therapy is counseling. Most medical professional papers written about BPD trace the source of the disorder to a sexual trauma – either molestation or rape.
If $arah does have BPD, there is no cure. Her current schedule will accelerate the disorder, and it will become more difficult to hide her symptoms. I encourage all to read the DSM 4 definition of the disorder. It explains why she attended so many colleges. It explains why she insists in loyalty. It explains why she needs media attention – positive or negative. It explains her self identification as a victim.
Somewhere in her medical records is the evidence a competent MD will need to discourage her from running for office again. Somewhere out there a physician will be brave enough to step forward at tell the public why this woman, as George Will said this morning, should never be placed with the power to control a nuclear weapon.
I am hoping that I am wrong, but I suspect that $arah will place herself in the public long enough this summer to have someone make an attempt on her life. She would be part of the planning, and she would never be in danger. It would fit her pathology – and her need to be seen as a victim again. Many of her bots would willingly participate, and then claim she had no knowledge. The truth would come out, since women with BPD can not keep secrets. They have to tell their darkest sins to someone.
Faking an attempt on your own life to gain delegates is a low she would stoop to. Getting away with it is another matter.
Thank you for the explanation about the Bailey draft. I’m even more troubled that Blind Allegiance vindictively addresses the ‘McGinniss leak’ while the authors ignored their agent’s carelessness and the actual source of the leak. The ‘leak’ references add nothing to the book and actually undermine the critique of Palin’s vindictiveness. Baffling.
I agree with you totally and I have a similar plan. I’m going to take my anger and disgust and try to turn into energy for working on the next election. I dont believe venting on the NYT, WP or any other mainstream media outlet helps at all. I’ve stopped watching almost all news including MSNBC and read instead but in small amounts. I was getting too worked up. I never ever get into arguments with Palinbots on twitter or elsewhere and I don’t go to their blogs. It doesn’t help – there is no point to it! I’m going to start doing volunteer work for Obamas re-election campaign and for another group that works towards electing progressive women.
I’m disgusted with the coverage of Sarah Palin. She should not even be considered as a viable candidate. I mean seriously- look at her today! I’m definitely done with the NYT and if they want people to actually pay to read their online content, they better change their tune. Talk about desperate! And just last week there was a writer Green in the Atlantic talking about how much Sarah accomplished as governor. I wanted to scream!
If someone wants to organize actual campaigns to complain about the lack of research and undue attention, I would participate but I havent seen anything like that. So I’m back to your idea of helping to promote the kind of candidates I want.
Joe thanks for pointing out this article. Truly it’s ridiculous. Sarah isn’t capable of being president. Think about it seriously- the day to day. Truthfully she would hate it and I bet she knows it. But she can’t help herself. It’s her sickness and massive ego. She wants the title and she wants to beat President Obama. I truly believe if she was elected, she would be impeached, but the amount of damage she could cause is too frightening to think about.
I want to believe Americans are smart enough not to elect her but they elected Bush and there are more racists than I care to think about. We have to get out the youth vote.
Does Murdoch own the NYT? If so, there is the answer in a nutshell. The MSM IS lame.
I talked with my 91 year old mother in New England this a.m. The first thing she wanted to talk about was how utterly disgusting $palin is – did you SEE what she’s doing now? I asked for her thoughts on what to do about the Wicked Witch of Wasilla. She laughed and said that she didn’t believe any of this is serious. There lies the problem – the majority of people don’t believe she is a threat to them. So how do we get them to listen?
Since I knew there would be a lot of Internet posts about Palin & Rolling Thunder, both from blogs and news websites. I pulled up Notepad, copied links from the posts, and then pasted them on Notepad. Saves me time going to all the other media websites, deprives them of clicks. Will keep list till later, then most likely delete list. Not saying to do this for everything about her. Agree w/ comment to put in efforts to educate others. Do not take it for granted that your family members know about Palin–EDUCATE them & maybe they can educate others if the topic arises.
I know. And thank you for that. (Take it one step further though. I say this as someone who used to work in public relations and just watched Geoff Dunn’s book go into some kind of media black hole. Get copies in advance to the press. Strategic press. And make sure you’re booked for interviews. Do that. If your publisher isn’t on the ball, then hire your own people. With the unemployment rate in the publishing business you can find plenty of young people eager to put together the press packets and do the phone schmooze with editors. Just be sure to do that. Get in their faces. Make yourself impossible to ignore. That’s what Palin does – doesn’t she?)
This photo was up on an article. I tried to imagine going from this to the mentally ill grandma on a motorcycle. I can’t.
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/283841/thumbs/r-OBAMA-JOPLIN-TORNDAO-huge.jpg
I’m getting scared. So I hit my keyboard and say so. You know?
I agree. There is a third group that supports Palin. That is the pro-life grassroots base. I speak from the unique perspective of being a converted political progressive but with pro-life roots. The pro-life movement considers the right-to-life of the unborn child paramount. That means that no issue can top the right-to-life. What does all that mean? When the local pro-life chapter endorsed McCain/Palin in 2008, I emailed the political chairperson to vent my concerns re: Palin. My concerns were not addressed. I was politely told that nothing was going to be changed. This from a supposedly intelligent woman. Another intelligent person on the board, who I knew, was a member of Team Sarah. I do not know if they would still back Palin three years later, if, God forbid, she would run for President. I plan to email and educate long before 2012. Perhaps others could also email and attempt to educate pro-life groups. Feasible?
I can state unequivocally, President Obama has more pro-life cred in his little finger, than Palin could have if she were cloned to infinity. She is using the pro-life grassroots for her narcissistic supply, for money, and for votes.
“…it’s the enabling by mainstream media, desperate for page views as print circulation plummets, that keeps her not only afloat, but aloft.”
The 2008 campaign was the first time I noticed the MSM’s manipulation of the news in an effort to keep the race close and exciting. I regularly let the MSM know that propping up Palin, who has proven her incompetency, is a surefire way to lose my business. But it will take a large number of people to end the media infatuation with Palin…perhaps, some kind of a ‘Stop the Media Madness’ campaign or petition. I’ve also let the Democratic Party and individual candidates know that I won’t donate when they use Palin as a fund-raising tool. If she gets the nomination, I’ll hold the Democratic Party as responsible as the media.
And I hopefully anticipate the release of The Rogue.
All the publicity about Quitler “crashing” the RT event was, I think, a setup which was beneficial to both the group and her. Did anyone see one single protest against her presence?
RT endorsed GWB in both 2000 and 2004, giving him an honorary membership. They’re part of the same rightwing crowd that trashed John Kerry. Do some goggling, as I did, and find out about this uber jingoistic group and what ties they have to other RW orgs. All those claims about not being a political group are utter horseshit and they should lose their non-profit status (but Bush wasn’t about to call them on it).
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/2584
Look at who RT “pals around with” if you think I’m “off the wall”: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Gathering_of_Eagles:_Threat_to_damage_the_Vietnam_Veterans_Wall
The American public has a very, very short memory span–which is why Sarah Palin is a dangerous person. Joke about her all you want, call her names, but never underestimate her and the rightwing money crowd.
The media does what it does for the same reason Sarah Palin does what she does; the almighty buck. Sarah needs the media for her income as much as the media thinks it needs Sarah to keep the ratings and internet hits high. It is a symbiotic relationship; both parties know this but refuse to acknowledge it.
Is there cause for concern? You betcha. If the unemployment rate goes north of 15% or even 10% as the election draws near, Obama is toast. The R will win no matter who it is, so it is imperative to have a Republican nominee whose name is not Sarah Palin.
Now is not the time for panic fellow commenters. It’s early days yet (too soon to make a judgement about the outcome of this play). There are some heavy hitters in the Republican party that are with us and do not want Sarah anywhere near the ticket. Two names I would mention are Mitt Romney and Karl Rove. I would bet my house (it’s a fixer – you can have it), that both these fine gentlemen have sent individuals up to Alaska to dig for dirt. It would shock me to learn that Mitt didn’t have someone living in Alaska incognito since November of 2008. Mitt is a smart man and you don’t get to be the head of Bain Capital if you are not ruthless as well. Karl Rove’s reputation speaks for itself. We can take heart in the fact that these fellows and others have done their opposition research and are holding their powder for the day and days after Sarah announces her intention to run.
In the interim, there is much we can do. If I can find out where Sarah’s bus is going this week, I can show up with a sign. I can bring my friends and relations and they can bring more signs. We can shout out Sarah when she is speaking (respectfully of course). The media might interview someone and that someone could say we would rather be honest and elect a box of rocks because Sarah Palin does not have any knowledge, any ideas and can barely put together a proper sentence.
Letters to the editor are not yet obsolete and you can play Sarah’s game and write your own letters stating that you would sooner elect a box of rocks than Sarah Palin because she is devoid of knowledge, ideas and can barely put a proper sentence together.
I also plan on registering as a Republican so I can vote in my state’s primary if it comes to that. There will be no Democratic primary this go around, so let’s all cross over to the R side should Sarah announce.
Wikipedia states that “In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the senstive dependence on initial conditions; where a small change at one place in a nonlinear system can result in large differences to a later state. For example, the presence or absence of a butterfly flapping its wings could lead to creation or absence of a hurricane.” We can all flap our wings to some degree; Joe is certainly going to contribute to the winds with his book and the rest of us can do whatever we can; no action is too small and it just might make the difference. Together, we can cause the hurricance that finally knocks Mrs. Palin off the national stage.
I’m pretty fed up with the newest round of msm bs. Given the sheer number of “reality” shows on tv now, is it any wonder that the msm cannot resist the “reality show” that is Sarah Palin every day? The actual reality is that mainstream journalism has lost its way, and it is going to result in a painful election cycle. The fawning over Trump should have made that clear to everyone. I just know that if that woman actually runs for office, then every sane person had better get up off their ass and see that she is never elected to any office ever again. She may seem bigger than life, and her number of supporters SEEMS larger than it is, but she is really just a sick narcissist who will be stuck with aging and fading away after we reelect Obama. You want to take steam out of that woman? Reelect Obama. It will make her face all pinchy. In the meantime, the progressive blogs will continue to expose her for what she is, and blogs like mine will continue to make fun of her. She is a caricature, and we need to keep her that way. Time is ultimately on our side.
Thank you, newmeximan, for expressing many of the dreads in my mind. Yes, this pathetically twisted child-woman is hoping for an attempt on her life. No, we can’t trust the voting machines to record the genuine votes in any election. No, we can’t trust the people who report ‘news’ to stop making up ‘news’ for money. I’m too old to go on another passionate political stint: but I can pray. And I’m seriously asking the God that $arah Palin falsely claims to worship to put her off the public stage.
It is so frustrating and totally disheartening to see how little impact the Dunn & Bailey books have had on exposing Palin. It appears the woman is made of solid Teflon.
I hope for all our sakes, Joe, that your book will have a different outcome.
Jon Stewart tried to point out this feature of the news media–“The country’s 24-hour political pundit perpetual panic conflictinator”–and was tarred and feathered by that media for his effort.
I hope [and would pray if I did that sort of thing] that most people can see the damage a Palin “campaign” would inflict on the country. I also hope the Diebold electronic votiing machine issues are well-managed everywhere [not confident about that].
I’m not looking forward to the Cirque du Horreur political campaign that seems to be coming our way.
I think the books have had a huge impact. Out of the blue she decides to go on vacation with the photogenic part of her family and visit all sorts of “True Blue I ♥ America sites. It’s been reported everywhere that no one really knows where she’ll turn up or when, sort of like a tumor (I’m fairly certain the tumor part hasn’t been reported all over the place, thats just me). But I digress, she just hit the road for a publicity tour because she is smart enough to know people would rather gawk at the pretty lady with the fake boobs than read a book about her.
That’s all well & fine, but even if she ends up not running she’ll be influencing public policy and public thought in the interim. Do you want that? I don’t.
I bought Blind Allegiance and was disappointed they felt it necessary to put the leaked manuscript issue in their book, and point fingers at you. Regardless of the facts and/or what they may believe, it was unprofessional and childish to do that, and irrelevant to the story of $arah and Frank. Blind Allegiance is not well written. It’s amateurish and not a good example of story telling. I tore through The Lies of Sarah Palin as it was well crafted. Bailey’s book, not so much. I know the publisher of Bailey’s book (personally) so it actually does not surprise me that so little attention was given to editing, story crafting, etc.
I agree the MSM deserves a heaping helping of blame in $arah’s continuance in our lives. It really is quite pathetic how they run after her. However, I continue to hope that she’ll just keep putting her foot in her mouth (on camera) and it will ultimately serve to discredit her once and for all.
Joe, didn’t you work for the Philadelphia Inquirer, back in the day? Surely that qualifies as the MSM?
I so agree! I voted in the R primary last year for that very reason. I was aghast that Joe Miller (supported by $arah) had the audacity to run for Senator here in Alaska. As you remember he won the primary so my idea of voting R didn’t work that time….. but I it COULD. Think about it! That said, what followed in the general was historical in every sense. When there is a common goal (like keeping freaks of nature out of public office) folks bonding together in a concerted effort can do amazing things!!! I am ever hopeful there will be a movement, the likes of which may never have been seen, to finally eradicate the vermin that is Sarah Palin.
I truly believe that that witch doctor has given her a Teflon shield.
Because no matter WHAT she does, NO government authority (IRS, FBI, etc) seems to be willing/able to investigate and prosecute her. Look at the many,many different ‘-gates’ she has – NOTHING affects her. She just moosies (sp?) over to the next one – and gets away with it also, too. 🙁
The only way to get that shield scratched is to get another (stronger) witch doctor to get rid of it…
Here is the thing. This is a society that has made multi-millionaires out of Kardashians. Sarah Palin is a product of our society. And I’m sorry. I don’t watch TV news at all. I get all my news off the internet and I have been absolutely drowning in Sarah Palin ‘excitement’ these last few days and it all from anti-Sarah blogs. I have seen every picture of her sitting on a motorcycle, heard or read every word she uttered, what Piper wore and the expression on Bristol’s face. And this is the anti-Palin blogs. We eat her up worse than anyone else.
I don’t even know if Pawlenty has kids. Heck I didn’t even know how many kids Arnold had until a couple of weeks ago. And I live in California!
But Sarah is entertainment – pure and simple and she knows it and more importantly she knows how to exploit it. She has made herself a very rich woman by exploiting the American culture of today and she just happened to choose politics as her avenue because let’s face it, she tried the only other ‘entertainment’ routes out of Wasilla (newscasting and beauty pageants) and she pretty much sucked at both those.
But here is the other thing. Sarah is entertainment that translates into ratings for news organizations and clicks for blogs. (Yes, HP, we see you couldn’t resist making her the headline yesterday and yes we see why – you got several thousand of comments about her.) She is media gold pure and simple.
Sarah wants to be rich. She wanted out of Wasilla. She knows she can’t do it the traditional way because quite frankly she doesn’t want to work that hard. Heck I’m sure in her mind she feels she is working hard enough just keeping up her appearances. It’s not easy for a middle-aged woman to give the illusion she is still a sexy, desirable babe. That take lots of money and hard work. Sarah works very hard to be Sarah. And based on the attention she garners, she does pretty well at that.
But lets look a the ratings. Let’s really think about election day 2012. Will the majority of American choose a Kardashian over a Harvard educated man who actually give a shit about this country and works hard at his job? Sure her die hard fans will, her right wing base, her fundamentalists and of course the right-to-lifers who put that over anything else. She would get her 30% no matter what. Any conservative would. Could she be the Republican nominee? It’s conceivable but only because no one of substance really wants it right now and the Republican party is absolutely fractured.
But could she be President? I read Sullivan’s doomsday prediction. If the world ends anyone is fair game. But here is the other thing. I don’t think the world is going to end. I think we have a President who gives a crap and because of that I think things are improving – even though progress is slow and like anything of substance won’t happen overnight. I also think that come election day 2012, Sarah Palin will just be a soundbite somewhere. And I also believe that is exactly okay with her. She will keep milking her fans, banking millions and living the dream she always wanted back in the days she lied to Todd to sneak out and see Ivana Trump.
So what do we do? We do what we did in 2008. We canvass, we knock on doors, we promote the best candidate for the job. And we put our faith in the only thing we can – the process. And if we have to watch Sarah Palin, because quite frankly, she is pretty damn entertaining, then so be it. But let’s not pretend she is anything she is not. She is good at getting headlines for herself detailing what she wore. She is great at the soundbite and she is masterful at stirring up controversy. She is pretty damn lousy at telling us what she could do for this country. And believe it or not, that is what the majority want to hear and what they think about on election day.
Unfortunately, this has already been done – to no avail: Remember the outcry when Discovery Channel said they intended to run the 8-part political advertisement series of hers? Thousands of people wrote (I myself did so several times…) – and they ran it anyways.
Mark my words – she might not run in 2012, but she might run in 2016. No matter what, though, she will keep influencing public policy. Nothing short of imprisonment will stop her. THAT should be our goal – MAKE SOME OF HER ‘-GATES’ STICK, and make sure she wears the orange jumpsuit FOR YEARS TO COME!!!
Three ways to stop her. Expose the Birth Fraud. Publicize a child of hers self-destructing. Link her to the crimes that scared Alaskans from talking. These are tough times, and it takes balls to win a war. Playing nice with Sarah Palin (and/or laughing her off) will get you nowhere except the high road.
BTW, Joe: How come you show an Icelandic timezone here?
If we could prove that Palin had an abortion(s), and did not give birth to Trig, maybe the right-to-life group would stop supporting her. Hopefully, this will be proved soon beyond the shadow of doubt.
Beats me. I guess that’s just the way God made it.
–Joe
Well, it wouldn’t be the first time that she would claim such a thing. She has claimed it repeatedly – for herself as well as for her daughters.
Remember when she claimed she was being stalked? No police report was ever filed, but she got a restraining order against the ‘stalker’. She claimed that all the boys in school wanted to gang-rape her daughters (and then she got rid of her own security detail). She claimed that Lenno was a pedophile, claimed that JOE was a pedophile….
You are on the same page as I am… DIEBOLD is the key, and the Dems have NOT taken care of that issue.
I believe it could/would work. Remember, Limbaugh had called for something like that in a recent election, and I also seem to remember that it was done locally here in my state, also, too… (i.e. TeaPukelicans registering as Dems to influence the primaries).
Ailsa, I agree. Best to put our energies into the re-election of President Obama and regaining control of the House (still waiting for all those jobs the Republicans promised) and maintaining the majority in the Senate.
As for the MSM….they suck. Palin is a media creation, and their collaboration is political theater. I despise
their shallow and self serving performance. I have sent letters protesting their coverage and her legitimacy. I’ve changed the channel and blocked networks. Finally I canceled my cable subscription and a few periodicals. Our household subscribes to The Nation, I seek work by journalist and not by entity, and I visit websites that aggregaete news from various sources and moderate comment sections to discourage troll infestations, and create space for reasonable debate. I consider Al Jeerza, the BBC and Whitehouse.gov as essential sources for information. I refuse to read the articles written about her or watch any video that she is the star of. I can not tolerate her voice and see only thinly veiled contempt and arrogance in her mannerisms and facial expressions. Her speeches make no sense….her audience hears what they want to hear, they see what they want to see. I hope one or two of them have come to their senses and realized she blathers, pumping expression and excitement into soundbites. After the blood libel video, aghast, I decided the ill will I harbored toward her damaged only me. I fear her hatred and derision will inspire dangerous and possibly life threatening behavior in someone that is already half-cocked. I fear that , and Republicans regaining control of our Government.
Last week I followed, via the internet the Presidents visit to Ireland, England, France and Poland……from what I understand Americans were exposed to very little of it due lack of MSM coverage, despite a pool of traveling reporters. I witnessed his visit to Moneygall, his speech in Dublin, a tour of Westminster Abbey, serving BBQ at a picnic honoring service men and women, visiting Globe Academy a London prer school, with Michelle being the honored guests at a state dinner hosted by Queen Elizabeth, speaking to both houses of the British Parliment which ended in a rousing and long standing ovation. Michelle Obama’s visit to Oxford reconnecting with the young girls she had been introduced to in 2009 and with whom she has remained in contact with, the G8 summit in France including a creepy play by Italy’s Berlusconi, laying a wreath at The Tomb of The Unknown Soldier in Warsaw, visiting the memorial and speaking to family members who lost loved ones in the Smolensk plane crash, multiple bi-lateral meetings, press conferences, meeting with Eastern European leaders, all while maintaing direct connections with Missouri Governor Nixon and Fema, congratulating NY-26 Kathy Huchol, and being disrespected by Netanyahu and a complicit, and disingenuous Congress. Returning home late yesterday, he traveled today to Joplin Missouri to meet with the members of it’s devasted community, offering support and reassurance, and joining them to memorialize the lives that were loved and lost. I witnessed and experienced this without relying on American corporate media. And I was touched, inspired, connected, informed and amazed…I am proud of
our President and FLOTUS, I am proud to an American, and I feel connected and united with the larger world.
The majority of Americans had no experience or connection with what our President did last week, some even insinuated that he was vacationing on America’s dime, and of course he was guilty of neglect and the needs of the American people, and shame on him for not kissing Netanyahu’s ass….uppity black man. Eric Cantor was decrying government funding for emergency services. And yet America was served up by the media…..Sarah Palin. Because? She could be President…seriously. My impression is that she is MSM porn…and Americans are addicted to porn. Maybe if we enlarged and circulated the mem that Palin is media porn and our MSM is her pornagraphers we could wake up America to her senses.
I’ve raised my voice, I have redirected my attention and my consumer dollars, I have put my attention on the people and organizations that I believe are positive, purposeful and aligned with my values. As an individual I don’t think I can do more. Greater impact could be served by organized activism whose goal is to negate the influence of Palin porn, and to challenge the MSM to clean up their act. Maybe collaboration with existing organizations like Media Matters, or Color of Change to name two, would be a place to start.
I know net neutrality needs to be protected and we should be demanding our elected officials work to protect the general public over corporate interests as it relates to internet access. I am just thinking out loud. Like Joe, I believe the Palin phenomenom is not possible without the MSM supplying the wind beneath her wings.
What we focus on expands… lets focus our attention and intention on enlarging the positive, and find the opportunities in existing obstacles.
Talking points written on her hand, eh? So did she talk?
Actually, Gryphen has some pretty explosive info on self-destructing Willow on his blog today…
How will she be influencing thought, exactly? I’d be hard-pressed to know what she thinks about anything, other than she hates President Obama. She hasn’t articulated a coherent thought publicly yet.
She can only reinforce the prejudices already present in the hearts of those who care about her. They would have chosen a different lodestar if she weren’t available.
She is in it for the money and the celebrity. She’s Madonna, without the talent. She’s Tila Tequila, at 45. She’s Charlie Sheen.
You will never be able to stop her from enriching herself, but in the long run, she has effectively locked herself into this celebrity role, and she will not be able to escape it in the long run. Like Ted Nugent, she will become a media caricature of herself. Like Glen Beck, she is a rodeo clown.
Forget the parallels with Reagan as a media personality turned political leader. Even as a media personality, Reagan actually had CONTENT, spoke about policy, and worked within the political structure. Sarah has none.
People who call Sarah’s media strategy brilliant are right only in that she is able to achieve her main goal – attention for attention’s sake. Her faux-disdain of the media while relentlessly courting it is the central cognitive dissonance of her life. Like the mythological sexual siren who hates her sexuality, like the self-loathing beauty queen, like the crying clown, the emotional and mental imbalance between her inner self and her craving for her public image will eventually take its toll with her.
I doubt there is any way to convince the right to lie group.
If it was revealed that Sarah had an abortion- and I’m convinced that “Tad” was an abortion- all she has to do is say that she was young and frightened and her husband was away a lot, leaving her alone with a baby, and her faith wavered, but since then she has had a born-again experience, yada yada and deeply penitent, thank you God. We’ve all heard that crap. Pervy preachers use it all the time.
And WHEN it is revealed that she didn’t give birth to Trig- and there is no other way to explain the flat-belly Elan Frank pictures vs. the Gusty photo other than fake- she’ll say she was protecting somebody’s reputation. Probably Bristol’s.
And her fans will be just fine with it. After all, they have abortions too. And they have daughters who get knocked up out of wedlock. I understand the unwanted pregnancy rate is highest in the red states. They’re going to be very forgiving of Sarah’s peccadilloes.
And none of them will pay any attention to Sarah’s faults as a politician. She’s never really accomplished anything in her life except squeak by in a few elections, but done nothing worth remarking after that point. If you manage to get that message out, they’ll just say, “Those lefties will lie about anything.”
Sometimes I give up on the U.S. I keep looking at Costa Rica.
I feel for Sarah’s children. It couldn’t be easy for them. Willow is probably having the toughest time. It’s not easy to be 16 and when you add the fact that Sarah Palin is your mother, I imagine it’s just about impossible for her.
C-Span has a video of the event. I didn’t see Sarah.
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/ThunderRa
I had heard that the book was poorly written. To me a Sarah wannabe that gets thrown under the bus isn’t of much interest. I’ve no idea why Devon hitched her wagon to this beast. I believe the State of Alaska has delayed the email request about fourteen times now. That’s about the only interest I think the book holds & should by now be public record. When you drink the poison it makes you look like a wuss when you whine later.
I still have my heart set on Dairygate. It’s boring & difficult to follow but it seems like there was serious money laundering & helping yourself to Gov. money. I’ve never thought that Babygate would be the ticket to a Palin Free universe. The Bots will circle the wagons & everyone else already knows she’s crazy & would do just about anything. I doubt it was illegal….just crazy.
Yes, they did. She is such an idiot that she kept calling him O’Biden….thus “can I call you Joe”. I was so disappointed in MSM when they said she held her own. No she didn’t…she had little index cards & didn’t even answer the questions she was being asked. I knew we were in for a rough ride, but not this rough.
Yes, the election is young & it’s best to try to stay calm at this point, but I still think that we have not seen the Repubs. real candidate yet. My guess..the Republicans Hail Mary….Jeb Bush.
You Betcha!
But what do we do??? How do we address this? Anybody have any ideas?????
LOL That one shot of her with her signature frown. (similar frown from the campaign from something Cindy McCain said.)
I’m not going to sweat over her tour. I hope she keeps it secretive and is afraid of people protesting, (as in Wisconsin. when the protesters outnumbered her support 10 to 1.)
She will highlight ever supporter as she always does and ignore the protesters. So be it.
It has started as a hot summer, quite humid. I hope she stays hot and disheveled as she beauty queen waves her way to Iowa. With her children, minus Trigg who seems to be in mothballs from here on in.
I don’t believe anything in the media anymore. They say don’t believe anything you read on the internet. Well I don’t watch T.V.. so I miss all the hoop de do. Can’t say I miss it. A long hot summer? Well I’ll be living my own little life, and only checking her progress on a few blogs to Laugh Out Loud.
My opinion (for what it’s worth) is that exposing Babygate to a wider audience is what is needed to finally prove to the public at large, including her own supporters, that she is a fraud whose mental imbalance is so serious that the name “Sarah Palin” and words “President of the United States” should never appear in the same sentence.
Right on, Alex! I agree 100%.
Thanks, Joe, for reiterating that it was Bailey’s agent who circulated the manuscript without a confidentiality request. It’s no surprise that it was distributed further and that excerpts were published. Seems to me that Bailey, et al. got such a shockingly quick deal BECAUSE the manuscript was out there.
I agree with other commenters here that the vindictiveness expressed toward you in the book by Ken Morris is atrocious. (Did he catch the virus from his subject?) Petty, inappropriate, and classless.
And ditto that the Dunn book is MUCH better than Bailey’s. It’s a shame that Bailey got all the interviews and publicity for what’s truly an inferior work.
Thanks for the statement. What the previous poster didn’t understand is that Palin has spent the last two years using social media to take swipes at this president and the media will run with her tweets, her Facebook postings, her comments to Greta and they run wild and she knows this. We can’t blame Palin because her excuse is that she isn’t talking to the New York Times, they are running stories based on rumors coming out of social media.
Sarah Palin is an older version of Kim Kardashian without the sex tape. You better believe she saw how the Kardashian family made 65 million dollars last year and she is running wild with the belief that America will love the Palin family. Palin knows running for president ends the money. Why would she risk losing millions to run for president when she could make millions pretending to run for president. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was paid to show up yesterday. As of last week, I never heard of Rolling Thunder and probably blew it off (no disrespect to the veterans who participate) but to the sponsors of this event, Sarah Palin was probably the best thing that happened because of America knows what Rolling Thunder is courtesy of the media.
But don’t kid yourself that it’s having any effect in the real world, where media memes are created, where elections are decided, and where the moral, ethical and political contours of our country are being shaped.
Maybe you should talk to your “friend” Roger about that.
We don’t have a direct line to people who “create media memes” and “decide elections”, so we have to content ourselves with grumbling on blogs.
It’s literally the worst-written book I have ever read, and I read a LOT of books.
I don’t know what in hell Devon and the lawyer/author guy added to it… I’d consider it unpublishable even in its “finished” state.
From experience with a recently born-again RWNJ sister, the more flaws their candidates have, the better they like them!!! Ted Haggard is back in the saddle; so is Larry Craig and Mr. “Appalachian Trail” Sanford. My sister defends them all.
Fundies apparently LOVE a “redemption” story way more than they are attracted by someone who just behaves decently in the first place. Redemption proves their world view; people behaving well without “falling” and subsequent Christianist intervention renders their world view moot.
Great advice, Freesia…
Don’t be so sure about the government authorities.
gypsyrose, imperviousness to rational criticism and debate is unfortunately a characteristic of religious fundamentalists (as well as of narcissists): they love the pushback, because the pushback confirms to them that they are on The Right Track. Their “success” is measured in how hard “Satan and his minions” are trying to suppress them, get it? It’s crazy-making, for sure.
I’m convinced that it was impossible for her to say “Senator Biden” because on some level she really thought she was running for the presidency itself (in which case her debate partner would have been Senator Obama). Witness also her reference to the “Palin/McCain” campaign.
Just part and parcel of Sarah being “wired differently”.
Susan, that’s a great comment. Very informative. too. I admit I had no idea of all that was going on with the President’s tour.
Yes. DairyGate was misappropriation of State AND FEDERAL funds. And the cover-up has been a very organized effort… an organized crime-type of effort. And the FBI and IRS follows those money trails…
DairyGate… that’s the one. That one has a State and Federal money trail…
What did America do to deserve such a rotten persona such as Palin to be in the spotlight? She’s the Snooki of politics.
The corporate-owned-for-profit MSM disproportionate focus on Sarah Palin is — I’d like to say, beyond comprehension — deeply, deeply disturbing. While they are desperate for any GOP challenger who can stir up the public, get them excited and interested in the election (translated means higher ratings) they do not care who the GOP candidate is or anything about their policies.
Insofar as most of the other 2012 GOP opponents (Republican 2012 wannabees) I’ve decided at this point that Sarah Palin is really not that much more worse. They are all dangerous, but she is, of course, probably more so due to her complete and utter and total lack of intellectual, geographical, historical, contextual knowledge not to mention common sense and human decency (although that is not saying much, comparatively speaking). Nevermind the fact the woman is reckless and a fraud. But then again, comparatively speaking, she is more exciting to cover at least for now since Donald Trump and Mike Huckabee have dropped out of the race. Plus Newt Gingrich has all been shunted out the door after his faux pas. So until someone else comes along to fill the vacuum or intensity gap it appears it is going to be 24/7 Sarah Palin.
A word of caution, I think it would be to our peril to focus solely on Sarah Palin. I doubt she will win, but I do not want to take any chances whatsoever. Thus a better-case scenario might be someone equally charismatic, like Governor Rick Perry (R-Texas), comes seemingly out of nowhere to capture the GOP’s fascination, in which case Sarah Palin would likely run as the T-Party candidate and split the Republican Party ticket. One thing Perry does not have going for him is his record, but he is unfortunately a compelling and talented campaigner. Nevertheless he would be just as dangerous for this country as Sarah Palin and/or as most of any of the other 2012 GOP contenders.
If it weren’t for our corporate-owned-for-profit MSM irresponsibly promoting false narratives starring mythical characters we would not even be having this discussion. But we are …
So, the question is: What are “we,” the people, going to do about it? The sooner we figure that out the better for all of us because otherwise … well, it would be redundant to say it … we all obviously know why.